My first Charger 2 12m test session.

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My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Hardwater Kiter » February 9th, 2013, 1:55 am

Had my first real session on the Charger 2 12m. Great little kite, for my tastes the Phantom 2 is where the action is but for those who miss the Synergy and were put off by the aggressive performance of the Charger 1 I think the Charge 2 is going to be a serious winner.

http://youtu.be/eH36spidvLI
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » February 9th, 2013, 11:27 am

Hardwater,

Thanks for sending the terrific video which clearly shows the much different more sculpted shape of the Ch2 vs both the Ch1 and P2. From your comments am assuming you prefer the P2 designed for land/snow kiting with its narrower profile versus the Ch2 generates more speed than the Ch2 over the snow. The Ch2 on the other hand designed for water which requires more grunty power as water riding requires over snow with a deeper center and fatter profile produces more drag than a narrower profile of the P2. Thus the Ch2 doesn't pull as fast across land/snow as the Ch2.

While this doesn't matter now with the big snow you are getting in New England, was wondering if you had ever used hockey skates on glare ice as shown in your excellent video? If allowed for the International Speed Kiting competition, am sure you would find yourself going faster with skates on glare ice than with skis. While living in Chicago we did quite a bit of winter kiting on frozen lakes in Wisconsin and on land around Chicago. The fastest I ever went with a kite and the most fun I ever had was riding on hockey skates on glare ice like in your video with a 3m open cell trainer kite. Skates offer zero resistance versus skis and allow for incredible power turns under the kite. The danger is getting the blades stuck in a crack and breaking a leg.

Regards,
Tim
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » February 9th, 2013, 11:42 am

Correction to first paragraph above it should read.... Thus the Ch2 doesn't pull as fast across land/snow as the P2.
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Snake » February 9th, 2013, 7:40 pm

I don't think skates would be stable at 70 mph. The length of the skis make them much more stable as it locks into that groove the edege creates. Ice skate blades are rounded and about a foot long. They are designed for low speed and quick turning. That the opposite of what hardwater needs.
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby tungsten » February 9th, 2013, 10:41 pm

Nice vid HK! shame this puppy is not fast enough for you... a mere 65mph... LMAO... maybe you should sneak into the open cell kite speed buggy department, or shoot NASA a mail. Keep'em coming!

cheers, tungsten

P.S. how's that pumping wing doing? any success?
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Ismo » February 10th, 2013, 6:04 am

Snake wrote:I don't think skates would be stable at 70 mph. The length of the skis make them much more stable as it locks into that groove the edege creates. Ice skate blades are rounded and about a foot long. They are designed for low speed and quick turning. That the opposite of what hardwater needs.


You could use these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_skating those are made for faster speeds and are for sale at least 55cm long. And You can use same alpine binding as in skis.
Kites: Charger2 22.5, Charger2 18, Charger1 15, Charger2 12, Venom2 10, Venom1 8, Charger1 6, S-Arc 460, T-Arc 1.3
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Hardwater Kiter » February 10th, 2013, 1:19 pm

Tungsten, that kite has been in and out of the van so many times it's crazy. I take it with fully intending to check it out and the winds or the temps "force" me to bust out the Arcs. Pumping the wing in 15F really REALLy sucks. I do want to play with it some more. Were going to be warm in the midweek so maybe then. =)

And don't get me wrong about the CH2, she's plenty fast. =) But I was suprised at the effort it took compared to the Phantom 2 or CH1. If I was on a bigger lake I might have gotten more out of her . She felt great though, rock solid to the core.

Not convinced open cells will get me any faster. We rely on gust factor here for sprints and bridled kites just beat the hell out of us. Add that to the drag from the damn bridles.... Not sure.

Tim, I understand on the surface a skate seems like an obvious choice for riding hardwater I promise you there is no way a skate will out run my skis with my tune. Skates offer less resistence for sure which makes them ideal for low wind, REALLY LOW WIND situations they lack several things that make a well tuned ski work on ice. We do periodically take touring skates out and they are wicked fun. There's some dicussion about it in this blog entry...

http://hardwaterkiter.blogspot.com/2012 ... -apes.html

But skis offer some very important advantages. First, active edge. 220cm of razor sharp ski edge, on each foot, allows for a lot of purchase on the ice and gives you what you need to translate the the pull of the kite into forward speed. Even a nordic skate has a relatively short turn radius as Snake points out. My shortest skis run a 31m radius. Most are >40-45m.

Secondly the safety factor. I can stop in a fairly short distance on the skis in an emergency. Even in the event that I lose a ski in a run I can drive enough edge to stop myself with one ski if needed. This is critical as every run essentially ends with a potential head on collision with a rock lined shore. On this surface you have to maintain a buffer in the event of a crash as you do not stop once you go down. Other safety advantages are that skis are resistant to cracks (crack is wack-Whitney Houston), ice fishing holes and dead animals. They distribute your load over ice which is good as sometimes on long distance runs you may come across thin ice at speed without the chance of stopping. Also if you damage an edge you can swap skis in the field and limp back. On this surface, without an edge you are at the mercy of the kite and sometimes just the wind.

Also, I often install lifters and dampening systems to my skis that allow them to run smoother on hard surfaces while also stiffening them.

In regards to International Speed Kiting, I'm not interested. Self proclaimed governing bodies have a tendency to suck the fun right out of things. I have the GPS data on multiple units to confirm my speeds and thats enough for me. Max speed is max speed as far as I'm concerned. Heck, when Yeager broke the sound barrier nobody said it didn't count because he didn't sustain it over a measured course. =)

Ismo's link metioned skating the canal in Ottawa. I love skating the canal, eating beavertails and hot cocoa. There;s room to kite at the far west end but I never have. I've been considering getting some nordic skate for light wind days.
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Re: My first Charger 2 12m test session.

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » February 11th, 2013, 10:51 am

Hardwater,

Makes sense skis over skates at high speeds. Thanks for the write up on hard water kiting. I only dabbled in kiting on lakes. Did nothing like you are doing.

Regards,
Tim
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