Saving the CH 1

Kitesurfing/Kiteboarding on Liquid H2O

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » October 21st, 2013, 8:07 am

Tim, figuring out the braid position for other CH1 sizes is quite simple. You can NOT use any measurements from SYN or CH2. You want to follow this little description:

1. Lay out one wing tip on a flat surface, top skin up.

2. Smoothen out and fix (pin down...) the TE (trailing edge) of the outer 7 cells (from TE tip to 1 cell past the inflate zipper cell).

3. Stretch out and fix (weigh down, pin down...) the chord, grabbing the LE (leading edge) top and bottom skin to make sure everything is flat and smooth.

4. LE braid:
Feel the BOTTOM skin braid (blue) through the fabric. As we want to run the top skin braid parallel to the bottom skin braid, we mark the position of the first (LE) bottom skin braid on the top skin, at the seam (black spot).

5. Middle braid:
Feel the BOTTOM skin braid (blue) through the fabric. Mark the position (black spot) of the first seam (this one is the same as original CH1 position), and the second seam (from first seam, run parallel to bottom skin fabric).

6. Once you have defined the new position for the braids on one wing tip, measure the distance to TE and apply to the other wing tip. Please share those measurements here.


Here's the pic:

CH1_mark_new braid position.jpg
CH1_mark_new braid position.jpg (265.64 KiB) Viewed 11795 times
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby ikite » October 29th, 2013, 8:47 am

Thanks for all this work Tungsten. Was going to sell my 10m but will give it a try instead.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » October 29th, 2013, 3:50 pm

My pleasure! I daresay this little mod will bring the prices for second hand Chargers up again 8-)
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby MonkeyAir » October 30th, 2013, 3:03 am

Great work Tungsten.
Great set of instructions.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby arcsrule » October 30th, 2013, 11:23 am

after sewing on my standards 8 and 11, Guerellas, venoms, and phantoms, I would gladly pay someone to do the mods on my c1-12 and 15. thanks for all your development work and posating up your findings.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » October 30th, 2013, 12:45 pm

I have a .pdf of the whole fix you can print out and carry to your local sail maker / glider repair shop / kite repair shop. Send me PM with your email. I don't know how many CH1 have been sold, but it's a shame there are many of them sitting on the shelve because they tried to kill their owner.

I could offer to do the fix if you were in Europe. Postage to US is just not feasible.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby daves » October 30th, 2013, 6:58 pm

T,

I might be missing something here, but maybe I can explain with a picture. I understand the measurement and re-alignment with respect to the TE. What I am wondering about is the re-alignment wrt the across-kite strap length. How should I measure the new strap length in the cells between sewing points on the seams? I know this is critical for cell shape as demonstrated by the strap adjusters. So, in the pic, how do I measure the strap length for appropriate tension between A-B-C, D-E...

Is the length simply the flat distance between cell seams on cell panels?

Thanks,

Dave
Attachments
CH1_strap_lengths.jpg
CH1_strap_lengths.jpg (357.41 KiB) Viewed 11702 times
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » October 30th, 2013, 8:26 pm

Daves, for the "braid length", you missed the Number 5 in my list, second picture:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=889#p4901

"IMPORTANT: the braid is sewn in SHORTER than the top skin above. When you put the braid in the new place and fix it for sewing (with a pin), make sure you do shorten the top skin by 1.5cm, folding it over and also securing it with a pin. This is 1.5cm PER CELL. Every time you sew the braid down, the braid has to be 1.5cm shorter than the top skin."

pin.jpg
pin.jpg (179.06 KiB) Viewed 11698 times


In other words: the braid between 2 seams is simply 1.5cm shorter than the top skin between those two seams. You don't measure the braids. You put them in their new place, lay them out flat, fold over the top skin in order to shorten it by 1.5cm, and pin the braid to the top skin where the seam goes. Sew it down. Continue with the next cell, same thing.

cheers, tungsten
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby daves » October 30th, 2013, 8:46 pm

OK, got it! I did read that part, but I guess it didn't click. Thanks T! Not sure when I'll start, but I'll try and post when I do get into it.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby ikite » October 31st, 2013, 9:07 am

tungsten wrote:Daves, for the "braid length", you missed the Number 5 in my list, second picture:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=889#p4901

"IMPORTANT: the braid is sewn in SHORTER than the top skin above. When you put the braid in the new place and fix it for sewing (with a pin), make sure you do shorten the top skin by 1.5cm, folding it over and also securing it with a pin. This is 1.5cm PER CELL. Every time you sew the braid down, the braid has to be 1.5cm shorter than

In other words: the braid between 2 seams is simply 1.5cm shorter than the top skin between those two seams. You don't measure the braids. You put them in their new place, lay them out flat, fold over the top skin in order to shorten it by 1.5cm, and pin the braid to the top skin where the seam goes. Sew it down. Continue with the next cell, same thing.

cheers, tungsten


So there will be slight wrinkles in the top skin when finished? Is this to pull the shape back in?

Thanks
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » October 31st, 2013, 9:38 am

No wrinkles. If the braid is shorter than the top skin, the internal pressure bulges the top skin outwards. That's what we want. A slightly fatter wing tip. Like this:

Left cell: braid is shorter than skin - skin bulges outwards

Middle cell: braid is longer than skin - all the load on skin

Right cell: braid is about as long as skin - skin bulges outwards a tiny little bit.

With 1.5cm, we achieve something like in the left cell.
(With 0.5cm, we achieve something like in the right cell. Middle cell is faulty by all standards.)

V2braidfault.jpg
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby arcsrule » October 31st, 2013, 10:42 am

tungsten wrote:I have a .pdf of the whole fix you can print out and carry to your local sail maker / glider repair shop / kite repair shop. Send me PM with your email. I don't know how many CH1 have been sold, but it's a shame there are many of them sitting on the shelve because they tried to kill their owner.

I could offer to do the fix if you were in Europe. Postage to US is just not feasible.



I would greatly appreciate that! thanks!
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » November 6th, 2013, 11:27 pm

Slightly OT - a guy called ride_wv found another way to save your Charger. Way cool, too. That's what Marc the stalling albatross should have done in the first place :lol:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=27077


Screen shot.png
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » November 8th, 2013, 4:38 pm

So... anyone tried yet? Because this is a serious fun kite now, as I can say after a couple more sessions low and high. OMG. :mrgreen:
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Re: Saving the

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » November 12th, 2013, 4:38 pm

Not owning a sewing machine, or possessing any sewing skill this morning I took my collapsing Ch1 to the North sail maker to do T's strap mod. Thinking of how I could express what changes I needed done to a sail maker I first marked the old contact points of the straps to the top skin of the Ch1. Then I marked the new sew points based on T's diagrams with the marker drawing arrows on the skin of the kite to show the direction of the straps relocation.

Going in I felt nervous that I would not make my explanation of the changes needed clear to the sail maker and that he perhaps wouldn't take on the repair. However, after thanking me for the diagram drawn on the skin of the kite, he said he expected to have the job done in a few days. This left me quite relieved as knew I couldn't make the changes myself. Now at the cost of a few dollars and permanent marks on the top skin of the kite I'm hopeful for the return to usefulness of a heretofore useless Ch1 19.

Will post results of the sail maker's efforts. To be continued....

Regards,
Tim
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » November 12th, 2013, 7:55 pm

Let us know how it turns out! If the sail maker has doubts he can check here anytime.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby krisis » November 25th, 2013, 7:37 pm

Finished :D
Everything has been stitched by hand in the same holes.
Waiting for the snow and wind.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » November 27th, 2013, 5:11 am

North Sails took G1 19 with strap mods marked on the outside with marker pen saying they would fix it. Ten days later they called to say the woman who does their repairs said she couldn't fix it. Picked kite up from North yesterday after finding a local kite repair/instructor guy who said he could do the strap mods. Hoping to get it back in a week. Will send test results when I do...
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » November 27th, 2013, 9:16 am

Timothy Grossnickle wrote:...they called to say the woman who does their repairs said she couldn't fix it...


It's not any harder than parking a car lol

Seriously, the fix is not difficult at all. You only have to figure out how things are built inside the kite.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » December 4th, 2013, 11:52 am

The local kite repair guy moved the shoulder straps on the Ch1 19. Picked the kite up last night. Before moving the staps this kite flew fine for a long time with just the simple shoulder strap mod and the two pulley bridle. Then it started to taco and collapse. Am going to try it with just the move of the interior straps and the simple shoulder strap mod before I make any more changes. Think the reason the Ch1 19 behaved better unmodded than the Ch1 15 due to its larger size which made it inherently slower moving and more stable in flight....
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