Saving the CH 1

Kitesurfing/Kiteboarding on Liquid H2O

Re: Saving the C

Postby Timothy Grossnickle » December 7th, 2013, 12:30 am

Thank you Tungsten!!!

Got the Ch1 19 back from the local kite repair guy this week and flew it this afternoon on the beach in light 10 mph winds doing everything in my power to make it collapse. I looped it and stalled it in the conditions when it showed pre strap fix the highest probability of tacoing....and it didn't. While generally a lot more stable than the Ch1 15, the Ch1 19's stability appeared improved hanging hands free at Zenith for long periods.

At this point aside from moving the short straps I've only done T's shoulder mod shortening the main strap 10 cm on both sides. I don't think the bigger more stable Ch1 19 needs the fine tuning for light air via T's other mods that the smaller Ch1's required. I've also left on the stock four pulley bridle which I think turns the kite faster than its big brother the Ch2 22.5. Now with the Ch1 19 fixed I'm going to have to figure out how to integrate the two. I LOVE the Ch2 22.5, but it does get big quickly when the wind picks up.

Because I didn't have any measurements from Tungsten to go by I used the main strap as a guide and marked the kite with a marker pen showing where the top strap needed to move to with both old and new positions marked on the kite. For the bottom strap I just straightened it out showing again old and new sewing points. Our kite repair guy understood the need for extra skin material between the strap connection points to allow the kite to inflate. He did this by taking the skin measurements off the kite prior to the mods. To get at the straps he opened up quite a bit of the bottom of the kite and turned it inside out. I told him about going through the zip, but he preferred to open it up from the bottom.

Overall a delighted to reclaim a kite I enjoyed that fits well between the Ch2 15 and Ch2 22.5. Recently I've used a Syn 19 which turns much slower than the Ch1 19. With the repaired Ch1 19 it feels like I just got a new kite from Traig...

Regards,
Tim
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » December 10th, 2013, 12:57 pm

Great to hear Tim! Enjoy your old new kite 8-)

3 Chargers saved already, 2 of mine and 1 of yours. Keep em coming lads! Chargers are an endangered species!
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tim » December 23rd, 2013, 3:25 am

I have been trawling through the archives but cannot find the diagram that shows how the skins & ribs are put together.
My sailmaker needs to have that colour-coded image before he starts the 1.9 mod on my Charger 15 because reading English is not his best point.
Visual is best ... so if someone can re-post the link here I would really appreciate it.
cheers
tim

>Make sure you understand how the braid was sewn in originally and copy that. The seam goes through the top skin (both layers, where they overlap), braid, and the folded over rib.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » December 23rd, 2013, 7:43 am

Hi Tim, here is a quick sketch of how stuff is sewn together. In any case, tell your sail maker to un stitch the TE and have a look. It's quite simple.

Hope this helps.

cheers, tungsten

ARC build.jpg
ARC build.jpg (44.88 KiB) Viewed 14507 times
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tim » December 23rd, 2013, 11:59 am

great Tungsten
thanks

hopefully a successful report of Charger 15 1.9 early in the new year!

laters
tim
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby krisis » December 27th, 2013, 6:51 pm

PL Charger 1.9 12m
Image
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby MonkeyAir » December 31st, 2013, 12:18 am

Hi T.
Thanks a million for the directions. " Quite simple."...errrrrr.. How to get that four mm overlap of rib perfect with the other three moving pieces with nothing but gravity and hope, while stuffing a turkey size sewing machine foot into the kite? Doing it while it is inside out and backwards does not seem the call. Three hundred straight pins are nice but I already gave blood this month...Actually in the last few minutes on all the freaking pins in this kite trying to make it work... Maybe a bit of two sided tape though that stuff never seemed to work well on the old mods. Maybe booze and paying someone with the correct sewing machine.. Oh please Mr Wizard give me something more than, "just sew it back together"....The NASA sewing center is closed for the holidays. The kite repair sewing short school bus that the Holland counselors said I progressed from so many years ago, just puled up in the driveway with a quart of plasma and transcranial electro shock therapy paddles.

Unpicking and redoing leading edge "A" seam as the relocated rip stop did not get into the mix The seem looked pretty cool till turned inside out to reveal it's dirty little secret. Should the existing rip stop be cut into two different pieces and then re-sewn onto the webbing? Perhaps need to buy a much longer and bit wider piece of rip stop than what is already sewn on the strap so it is included in the sewing without thirty seven pins poking your'e nards and forehead while bent over running it through the machine on the floor? I look like a bloody pin cushion with a standard large head and not a shoe store or loft type of tiny lower bobin not bobble head sewing machine. Its an old Kenmore, the machine not my punctured bobble.
So at this point of kite therapy, my two dull pesos are, GET a longer piece of rip stop for each relocated strap. OH and mark the strap as well as the top skin so you know exactly where that rip stop needs to be
(yes I put the one point five face tuck in prior}, if you can see through the doubled up kite skin and blood. Then again I did that with existing rip stop unpicked and relocated on webbing and STILL came short. as it folded up a few mm. AAAARRRGGG...They really saved on any excess on those strap rip stops...rrrrrrrrr... If you are within shipping distance to Tungsten, do pay him to do this for you and pop for the shipping from Zoltar 6's moon if necessary..
My wife and child will not see me for a week at this rate. Never did drugs or drank but might have to start now..Where's that Barbara Bush get an addiction center anyway? Arc repairs used to be so easy. Time consuming but easy... It's the straps...It's those darn straps... End of rant and return to normally scheduled thread in two sentences.. It's going to work great. This is what happens when you don't drink and have taken a multi year hiatus from modding a bunch of arcs.
BARTENDER!!!!
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 2nd, 2014, 4:33 pm

Hey Traig, great to hear you're having so much fun with the CH1 :D

Actually, I didn't use any special tricks. Just a couple pins.

What you could do if you have troubles fixating things:
- put the braid in its place and fix with a pin to the top skins only
- fix things in place with a couple hand stitches before you run it through the sewing machine for the final seam

Or you could even cheat a bit:
- don't unstitch the braid in the old spot, but cut it clean off left and right of the rib
- buy some 1 inch braid material and reconstruct the braid in the new spot
- don't unstitch the seam in the new spot, but make a 1 inch cut through the rib, just below the top skin, shove the braid through it, and sew down with the top skin.

Works all the same.

For the strip of rip stop, if the original material is too short, you could cut some out of a intake valve sock of some kite you have lying around, if you can't get your hand on this material. If it's a big kite, it's no problem if the sock is a bit shorter.

Again, a quick couple of stitches by hand to fix things in place, followed by the sewing machine for the real seam.

cheers, tungsten
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby MonkeyAir » January 3rd, 2014, 6:52 am

Thanks Tungsten.
Already had unstiched all the old positions and marked out the new ones. Thought of that nipping a bit of rip stop from an old S arc intake sock downstairs. It is assuring to hear the same sort of pirating thoughts coming from you. Sort of tempers the guilt of snagging a bit of rip stop from an old friend. The hand stitch will be the addition this time. Did the straight pins through top skin only on last try. There is something great about flying a kite you just modded. Can't wait to get a chance to finish this up. The hematocrit is back to normal now thanks. Hopefully wont be giving more blood at the kite repair bank. ......
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 4th, 2014, 11:37 pm

krisis wrote:PL Charger 1.9 12m
Image


Brilliant, and I hope it works for you. Just a quick remark:

If you change the bridle like in the picture, with A being a bit longer (both lines to the attachment points), and B being a bit shorter, the kite feels more natural and has more punch. Make it look like in the pic, roughly.

The way you have it now, the kite feels hard on the bar. Steering forces are unnecessary high.

cheers, tungsten

12bfb7374cf4efcc58c01d8e907eb484.jpeg
12bfb7374cf4efcc58c01d8e907eb484.jpeg (109.27 KiB) Viewed 14391 times
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 5th, 2014, 7:36 pm

MonkeyAir wrote:Thanks Tungsten.
Already had unstiched all the old positions and marked out the new ones. Thought of that nipping a bit of rip stop from an old S arc intake sock downstairs. It is assuring to hear the same sort of pirating thoughts coming from you. Sort of tempers the guilt of snagging a bit of rip stop from an old friend. The hand stitch will be the addition this time. Did the straight pins through top skin only on last try. There is something great about flying a kite you just modded. Can't wait to get a chance to finish this up. The hematocrit is back to normal now thanks. Hopefully wont be giving more blood at the kite repair bank. ......


Yeah, a bit of pirating is perfectly OK. One side effect of tinkering with the gear is, you lose the respect for the material. Knifing into the kite is normal. And it is really a great feeling to fly the gear tuned for your liking. Playing God for beginners, so to speak. Been out today 3 hours on a mix of CH1 and 2 and an old VII-16, 15-25kn, putting all of the boards I have on the beach and playing with toys toys toys (even an old OR Mako 150x34 in the mix, in 25kn on the Venom16, man was I FLYING over the water with a mad grin), and boy, ARCs are fun, and properly modded ARCs are a lot of fun. Keep your hematocrit high, sharks like it that way :twisted:
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby MonkeyAir » January 7th, 2014, 3:43 am

All done with mods....Bridle is all that is left to mod.
Thanks Tungsten. Can't wait to test the old 15m.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 7th, 2014, 10:26 am

Awesome! let me know how it's going.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby Mikey » January 7th, 2014, 12:13 pm

Or you could even cheat a bit:
- don't unstitch the braid in the old spot, but cut it clean off left and right of the rib
- buy some 1 inch braid material and reconstruct the braid in the new spot
- don't unstitch the seam in the new spot, but make a 1 inch cut through the rib, just below the top skin, shove the braid through it, and sew down with the top skin.


Super Like!!!!!!

Any counter arguments against this?

Ciao,


Mike
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 7th, 2014, 12:58 pm

No. It's faster :D
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby Mikey » January 9th, 2014, 11:05 am

tungsten wrote:No. It's faster :D


super double like!
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby daves » January 9th, 2014, 8:57 pm

Wile E Wollo - super genius

50% less sewing makes this a near-term reality for me
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 11th, 2014, 11:21 am

daves wrote:Wile E Wollo - super genius


I'm doing even better. No roadrunner steak on Wile E's plate so far, but my kites fly sky high.

Edit: in the case of "super genius" it would be a roast hare. Didn't happen either. For you looney fan boys. :D
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby krisis » January 11th, 2014, 8:09 pm

After mod I have only problem on the water when overpowered by gust. Charger 12m wind 14-25 knts TT 141x43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS4BnWgs ... re&index=1
Before mod I cut 3rd TE braid by adding length 5 cm then kite flying ok. After mod I tested with 3rd braid adding 5-10 cm.
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Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 11th, 2014, 8:49 pm

Hi krisis, the way it looks, the kite is faulty, braids probably have been sewn in by the factory way off the tolerance. It claps unsymmetrically. PM me and I'll help you to fix the kite. We have to go through the measurements as a first step. Have done this a couple times with other fellow CH1 victims :D

cheers, tungsten
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