Saving the CH 1

Kitesurfing/Kiteboarding on Liquid H2O

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby KiteForce » January 13th, 2014, 1:26 pm

My Vortex 10m used to behave like the Charger in that video, when I flew it on a navigator bar with Y-split 20m lines. At 70 kph in the buggy it liked to do that :/
Phantom2's: 6m, 9m, 12m, 15m, 18m, 24m
FOR SALE: Vortex 12m - Synergy 8m - Charger 6m
XXtreme APexx Buggy
KiteForce
 
Posts: 36
Joined: August 31st, 2011, 9:36 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby MonkeyAir » January 18th, 2014, 2:46 am

In same boat with modified 15 T. All initial bridle measurements checked out prior to mods. One leading edge tip tends to tuck in very quickly then the hand clapping comes on. Must have a recalcitrant braid somewhere.
MonkeyAir
 
Posts: 72
Joined: June 26th, 2010, 9:12 pm

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 18th, 2014, 11:27 am

we'll sort that, sent you mail. every CH1 seems to have a different personality. Some take their medicine and some don't.
tungsten
 
Posts: 483
Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 8:19 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 21st, 2014, 11:17 pm

Another CH1 15 saved. I bought a used one from mspatar on here in great conditions, modded it, and now it's behaved like Mark Zuckerberg when the NSA is calling.

The mods needed some adjustment, which took half an hour on the beach. This one needed a bit of shortening of the tip adjusters and a tiny bit of TE shortening with a leach line. Just saying. There's no 2 equal CH1 out there.
tungsten
 
Posts: 483
Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 8:19 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » January 25th, 2014, 10:15 am

I did some testing because some of you reported the kite still collapsing after the mod, while others are perfectly stable.

I found that there are not 2 equal CH1 out there, for whatever reason. Some kites require shortening of the TE to be stable. Best and fastest way to do it is a leach line. This requires 5 minutes and a length of old kite line, like described here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825&p=4624&hilit=modding+syns&sid=a7a5abd1b31d77b9ee4fa531cefd6dc6#p4624

Unlike in the above description, I'm NOT sewing any channels anymore. I found it's not necessary. Just feed the line through the mesh with a big needle or piece of wire, at the TE, that's it.

I also shortened the adjuster in the wing tips by very little, maybe 2cm.

I would recommend you try this. Very little shortening of the TE and adjusters made the kite stable. With a helper tuning should be done in 10minutes on a low wind day, solo it took me 30minutes (have to land and launch the kite which takes time).
tungsten
 
Posts: 483
Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 8:19 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby arcprof » February 9th, 2014, 10:14 pm

Hi Tungsten,
My brother in law sent me his Charger 12 for upgrading. I have never flown one before and I didn't try it before doing your mods. I've had it out twice since and need some advice. I used my zero 7 bar (600mm) with 27m lines. Mods done as per your insrtructions with top skin braids re-positioned and middle strap shortened in zipper cell by 3 cm per side and 2cm in 3 middle cells (6cm total), 3rd strap lengthened by 10cm. All adjusters loose. Bridle as per original.

First the good news. No collapsing. Easy launch and it never hand clapped in some very gusty conditions. Turns very fast compared to synergy 12, totally different pivot point as you have explained in this thread.

Bad news. Power delivery is very unsteady. The kite surges forward and seems to hunt around the power window. Even with loose rear lines it feels like it is semi-stalling and wakes up suddenly when a gust hits. I have a lot of bar pressure. My impressions are that the middle strap shortening may be excessive and will try it without any shortening in the middle cells but would be very pleased to hear if you can offer any other advice. Perhaps some shortening of the 3rd braid using the adjuster but in my experience this will make the stalling worse.

Thanks for any further help,
Jim
arcprof
 
Posts: 11
Joined: June 26th, 2010, 12:41 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » February 13th, 2014, 10:42 am

Hi Jim,

you're on a good way. The sitting back and shooting forward comes most probably from the bridle - too much friction in the pulleys. I found the original VPC3 bridle to cause lots of problems and got rid of it years ago. You may try to fly the kite without bridle (only front and rear attachment points) to see the difference. I recommend the pulleyless bridle like this:

CH1-15_bridle_feb2014.jpg
CH1-15_bridle_feb2014.jpg (228.85 KiB) Viewed 14020 times


Another thing I do on all of my kites for fine tuning is a leech line. After discussing with other CH1 owners and from experience with my own kites I would recommend to install it - quick thing - and use it to fine tune the kite balance. makes a world of difference. Like this:

TET leech.jpg
TET leech.jpg (150.99 KiB) Viewed 14022 times



TET leech2.jpg
TET leech2.jpg (149.61 KiB) Viewed 14022 times



TET leech5.jpg
TET leech5.jpg (73.56 KiB) Viewed 14022 times
tungsten
 
Posts: 483
Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 8:19 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tim » March 21st, 2014, 9:48 am

It has taken a couple of months to organize but I finally handed my Charger over to a sailmaker yesterday. After we did the measuring and marking out together, he has agreed to do the top skins mods and I will handle the remaining belt shortenings and extension. To take care of the belt mods, I bought a Speedy Stitcher: http://www.speedystitcher.com/
I tried to talk him into the cutting the belts and running them through a hole cut in the rib but it seems he would prefer to unstitch the seam as far up as the new position and then re-sew the unpicked seam.
Having had some time on the Charger with the no-pulley bridle and the shoulder mod, I can say a couple of things. First time out with these two changes done, I had a great time on a twin tip. It seemed the auto-zenith was starting to come back (but still a long way from my Venom II 16) and I actually felt comfortable with the Charger. Ecstatically so ... and then decided to take my second try at a strapless surfboard with the Charger and found that is was as busy as ever, hunting its way across the wind window. All very hands on at all times, without the stability generated by the twin tip edging against the kite.
BTW, I did the shoulder mod as a non-stitch, temporary experiment using pieces of a bamboo ruler cut to the appropriate length, alligator clips with their wings removed after being clipped into position,and some string and rubber bands to hold the hold show together. Undid tho shoulder mod before handing over the kite.
Really looking forward to getting the Charger back as a more sedate ride. Being comfortable with your kit is not to be over-rated. The auto-zenith function of twin skins is a big part of my interest in PL kites.
Once again, many thanks to Tungsten and others for keeping this Charger 1.9 project on track.
Should have something more conclusive to say in a week or so ... I hope other Charger 1 owners are considering how to tone down the high performance aspects of their wings.
cheers
tim
tim
 
Posts: 13
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 12:41 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tim » March 28th, 2014, 3:12 am

Finally got the Charger 15 1.9 up in the air yesterday. I had good pre-inflation but the wind was so light it was a centre line tugfest to launch. Spent about 10 minutes flying the wing and getting some mild heel-skid action on the beach. The power strokes are much more mellow but the Charger still flies fast through the window. That dynamic auto-zenith of the wing hunting its way up the window has gone but the kite tends to drift to the left from the auto-zenith position. (This drift did not happen when I had the temporary shoulder mod in place. I had added some new leaders to the lines in the interim so they may be unequal ... once the wind comes up in a few days I will get the Venom II bar out and see if the cause of that drift is more complex than unequal lines.)

Should be interesting getting into the water with 1.9 but I am guessing it will probably be a little too fast through the wind window for where I am on the strapless learning curve. For now, the formula will probably be Venom II 16 for strapless SB and Charger 1.9 for Mako 140 action.

So Tungsten
many thanks for getting me this far

>Another thing I do on all of my kites for fine tuning is a leech line:
>use it to fine tune the kite balance.
I have not installed the leech line yet.
When you say fine tune the kite balance, what does this mean?
I am guessing it is something more in the direction of custom tuning the overall feel, rather than addressing a wing that drifts to the left ... ?

cheerio
tim
tim
 
Posts: 13
Joined: July 4th, 2012, 12:41 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » March 29th, 2014, 7:50 am

Hi Tim, great to hear the rag is finally doing what it's supposed to do. Just take the kite out with your strapless board. I'm almost exclusively strapless, and the CH1.9's are working really really well with the surfboard. They turn fast and are lively. I throw my kites around all the time. Just sold my VII-16 which I had for a long time, it's a great kite, probably the most stable kite I ever flew, lots of float, lots of pull. Different animal to the CH1.9.

The leech line changes the profile (to less reflex), the trim (kite sits more forward) and is a powerful means to tune the kite. If you pull it in too far, the kite will get negative AoA and collapse in the center cells, so it's something to play with carefully. If you are happy with the kite, why bother. I have it on all of my kites and love it.

Kite turning to one side: after modding the kite, I would give it a couple windy sessions to break it in. If it still turns to one side annoyingly after a couple sessions, there's the old protocol: check bridles, check adjusters and settings, check lines, check spars. If all of this is to no avail, there's the top skin tuck to resolve it as a last resort.

Good winds, tungsten
tungsten
 
Posts: 483
Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 8:19 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby eightfootplus » October 25th, 2014, 10:57 am

Hi Tungsten, just wondering if you have you any measurements for a charger 10, the ones from the TE to the new fix points for the short brads ?

My 10 has just started to do this clapping business. I was out in gusty winds, all straps tight, using the navigator bar with Y lines, the kite was very unstable and then collapse out of the blue just like on the vids. After the 4 th relaunch I drifted into the beach. This is the first time the kite has done this, I noticed it clapped at launch and tugging on the middle lines got it going, it went OK for about 20 minutes and then just fell out of the sky.

I think I used it last couple of seasons on a bar without the Y, I can't be certain about the bar as I have been out for a season, I broke my ankle in the surf and only just getting back into it this year.

thanks


Andrew
eightfootplus
 
Posts: 3
Joined: July 14th, 2010, 12:46 pm

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby arcprof » September 7th, 2015, 10:38 pm

It's been a while since I converted my brother in law's Ch1 12 using Tungsten's procedure. The kite would still hand clap in gusty winds so it sat in the bag for another day. After some time I thought I'd fix the bugger and added a top skin tuck on both inflate zipper cells. It's quite a mission getting back confidence in a misbehaving kite but I can honestly say that after my last session on it I am actually enjoying it. Earlier in the day I was out on my Synergy 12 nicely powered up and thought it time to re-test the Ch1 12. Launching is still sketchy, the S12 can be tricky as well but I have learnt to set the power strap to long and haul in on the bar as the kite lifts off the ground and just loosen the reins enough to allow it to climb slowly. Once up the Ch 12 was great. Yes, it wanders round a lot with no steering input but does turn nicely and this allows for a better lower end than the S12.

I think this kite has been through the ringer a few times. My BIL abandoned it at sea a while back after a collapse and it was rescued by the Coast Guard after being deemed a hazard to navigation. I bet it didn't get well treated while being hauled out of the sea, full of water, onto a boat. I'm thinking the top skin may have stretched a bit and the top skin tuck has restored a bit of tension. I still need to get a few more sessions on it to get full confidence but the signs are good.
Cheers,
Jim
arcprof
 
Posts: 11
Joined: June 26th, 2010, 12:41 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby tungsten » September 13th, 2015, 8:20 pm

Hi Jim, long time since I've been on here. I'm still using the modded CH1 in 12 and 15 and I enjoy them very much. Fast turner, fast flying forward they have good low end and are fun in the waves. Good luck with that biatch :-)
cheers, tungsten
tungsten
 
Posts: 483
Joined: March 22nd, 2010, 8:19 am

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby ikemiester » May 6th, 2016, 5:55 pm

Most likely about to undertake this with my seamstress mother. Tungsten, or anyone else who has it, could you send me the PDF of the fixes? I'll pm you my email if you post. Tungsten, I already pmed you. Thanks for helping everyone with these kites!
ikemiester
 
Posts: 4
Joined: January 15th, 2013, 6:27 pm

Re: Saving the CH 1

Postby ikke » May 15th, 2016, 1:19 am

I bought a 12 m Charger this week and upgraded to 1.9 today. The bridle is still stock. Just took it out for first flight . Definitely something different from the 13 m VII I have as reference. I never flew it as bought, so I have no real comparison.
When checking the kite prior to modding I inflated it and held it in the wind holding the front lines. I could definitvely see the tip clapping phenomenon. The top skin braids induced a diagonal ""Fold here" line and the tip was unstable, clapping. After modding in a rerun of the test the diagonal was gone, and the tip was much more stable.
Testflight went OK. As said I have no comparison to charger 1, but it was fast and responsive. Speed and turning rate are in a different league compared to VII 13 m. Stability was definitively less than VII. Still some hunting, so maybe I need to loosen the centre strap some more? The bar was set up in a Y configuration I don't much care for. Instinctively I link it to the reduced stability. I have to admit this is not based on higher reasoning, so if I'm wrong please tell me and save me the disappointment of spending time on something that does not improve things.
Mine has a tendency to veer right I still have to trace and debug, but that is a separate issue. Either my measurement and sewing skills are lacking or something else is off. Finally after landing and I noticed a tear in the fabric. I forgot to remove a pin and was rewarded accordingly.

Some remarks:
1) Doing it in 2 hrs requires a level of skill I do not posess. It took me 5 hours.
2) I tried both unstitching at the new point, and cutting in the rib. Cutting is definitively less work. Hopefully it does not impact durability
3) When modding the top braid there is no need to open up the TE seam. You need access to the rib to reconnect to the top skin. This can also be done by cutting into the rib seam and folding it towards you. Start your stitch in the folded over, original stitch, and continue with the seam folded towards you. End in the folded over, original stitch.
ikke
 
Posts: 20
Joined: October 28th, 2012, 8:52 am

Previous

Return to On the Water

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron