turbulence wind use

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turbulence wind use

Postby rhurst » January 14th, 2014, 6:06 am

hello all, I'm thinking of buying a twinskin for possible use in dirty turbulence riding area's. I mostly buggy and use mainly FB foils, i also have a few depower foils and LEI. After reading how stable twin skins are I was hoping it might help with some issues I have with one of my closest riding area lots of trees and buildings to dirty up the wind.

any suggestions if this would help and if so what model might be best for this?
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby CTB » January 21st, 2014, 10:22 am

ive got an 18m charger 2 for sale if you are interested
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby KiteForce » January 21st, 2014, 7:52 pm

I fly only twinskins in my buggy, and when in turbulent winds (either because of low clouds and stormy weather or offshore winds), I have a significantly higher level of 'comfort' than buggiers who fly race kites or even low aspect fixed bridle kites.
Most of the times when they say: "that was a turbulent session!" i'm like "really?" :p

The only thing that might happen is the kite overflying because you depower too much. But that only happens when you stop driving or get out of the buggy.
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby Hardwater Kiter » January 22nd, 2014, 4:16 pm

We fly in turbulent wind all the time and the Arcs are excellent in gusty conditions. There's a little learning curve but when you get it figured out you can't beat it.
"The rider makes the kite."
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby alcazar » January 24th, 2014, 8:19 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:We fly in turbulent wind all the time and the Arcs are excellent in gusty conditions. There's a little learning curve but when you get it figured out you can't beat it.
..yes ,but is it better to fly low AR kite in turbolent wind or it does not matter, is just allabout bar playing no matter what AR kite is?
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby tungsten » January 25th, 2014, 12:06 am

Aspect ratio is just one single parameter of a wing out of many. One cannot deduct anything from AR alone. It's like asking if a diesel engine or a gas engine is better for driving fast. It just depends on the overall design and construction.

For gusty winds, a suitable kite should
-be inherently stable (no collapsing when wind shifts, or recover automatically after collapse without falling to the center of the window first)
-be able to kill sudden power surges effectively (this can be achieved in many ways)
-have an effective safety mechanism when things go pear shaped
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby alcazar » January 25th, 2014, 8:50 am

Which Arc gets closer to what you are saying ?


tungsten wrote:
For gusty winds, a suitable kite should
-be able to kill sudden power surges effectively (this can be achieved in many ways)


PS.Please tell me the ways,Sheet out, turn upwind the board,... turn kite to edge of window,.jump :o ? others??
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby tungsten » January 25th, 2014, 9:33 am

A bit of a nerdy explanation: You're mixing up two things: kite design and kite handling.

Design wise (AR is a design parameter) one can use some of the following:
-make a kite that flies fast to the edge with little lift (low lift profiles, kite balanced near the zero lift AoA of the profile; high AR = better L/D ratio...)
-make a kite that does not collapse with sudden shifts of the wind direction (choice of foil; bridles; LEI; choice of foils for an ARC; low AR = better static stiffness...)
-make a kite that deforms with a gust hitting, sucking up the gust (ARC does it nicely)
...and on goes the list of design parameters...

Handling wise you can do some of the following, depending on the kite design:
-sheet out (less apparent AoA = less lift)
-dig in your heels (lift force is proportional to the square of apparent wind; hence if you slow down you board, you slow down apparent wind, which slows down greatly the lift force)
-fly the kite to the edge of the window (this is where AoA is at minimum; zenith is also edge of the window, but you lose your ability to dig in your heels, hence you get lofted = not so good if you want to regain control)
-stall the kite and ride towards it turning the board a bit downwind (now this requires a kite which is tuned to be stalled, otherwise you go for a ride or the kite drops out of the sky; I tune mine like this for snap turns in the waves; riding towards the kite reduces the anchor force, hence the lift force)
-use shorter lines for better control
-jump if you have the skill and enough space downwind; in which case I suppose you are looking for gusts rather than asking what you can do when a gust hits, because jumping is nothing which helps you gain control.

As you see, low AR and high AR both have advantages, like with any other parameter, you have to see the whole picture. Now you can't build a kite with both low and high AR. Gotta take your choices how you want to skin the cat in the first place.

Apparent wind, AoA refers to what the kite sees. The true wind is meaningless because the kite moves through a 3D body of air. You've got to determine the wind vector at the LE of the kite.

Tl;dr:

The best ARCs in gusts to my knowledge are the old Phantoms and Venoms. I ride Venom and SYN and CH1 and CH2 in all kinds of conditions without footstraps, so gust handling is important; CH1 in gusty wind you have to know what you are doing and it's hard work; Venom is sweet; SYN is sweet with a bit more pull; CH2 requires a bit more attention than SYN, but still friendlier than most LEIs I tried.

It's a learning curve.
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Re: turbulence wind use

Postby rhurst » April 3rd, 2014, 12:31 am

Well I got my hands on a venom2 16 and took it out for first time 9knot wind was a bit tough to get inflated enough to fly but after that all I can say is WOW so thats what I've been missing. can't wait to find another smaller kite to give me more wind range. I think I can say it won't be long before I won't bother getting the fixed bridles out anymore.
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